CoH nerf, fear for future raid spots?! =O Beware the Wall-o-Text!
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CoH nerf, fear for future raid spots?! =O Beware the Wall-o-Text!
Wall of text from here.In TBC you decided to convert us to brainless COH spammers, it was not a choice we had tbh, you gave us an overpowered spell that actually overwritten every other spell in our casting bars. Whatever calculation one did it was always the CHEAPEST one, compared to casting time and healing done. Add to that the most serious factor that was the way encounters were designed you have the result …coh ftw. You made all the tbc high end instances so coh dependant that it hurts.
So in general lines its not like we Don’t know how to play…it is using the game skills provided for the encounters they were made to be used for or in a more vulgar way maximizing our characters potentials since there was no other potential given…unless u find it versatile to heal 5 people with flash heal instead of coh and use 7.5 secs instead of 3 and a hell load of more mana.
As for MT healing...good old classic times…heard the news? We don’t fit in MT healing anymore, after making the palas only good for that and gave druids the LB and treeform which rips out any other hot, it is absolutely pointless and silly to have a priest in the MT healing grp unless u go without paladins which is highly impossible…and that still is the case I am afraid. We seriously don’t fit into MT healing grps and its not because we cannot do it because we can, it is that other classes do it better so there is no point for priests go there unless they pray for a paladin to die at the pull…or bubble – hs.
All in all, for once more we don’t fit anywhere unless ofc you will design a battle shield based cause that’s the only left for our uniqueness. And so far so good…because new content is piece easy and it doesn’t really matter what classes you ll get (although malygos vortexes will be fun to c without coh) but what about 2 instances down the road? Will encounters be changed as well to fit the new nerfs? Or u will ask to do aoe healing encounters with only one class with a serious aoe skill? Which will end up to 4 shamans and 3 Mt healers again…cause if the encounters will be balanced I shut up for nerfing coh, if they are not I am afraid you should check again not the priest standing alone but the priest in relation to other classes and most of all the designed encounters in relation to a grp of healers of all classes and decide if you have ended up with a class that is actually needed for a reason or just exists for the sake of expansions.
And that is not whining about coh tbh, I never liked it since it had turned the class to a brainless unskilled achievement of who will beat the GCD but you are doing the same mistake again in my opinion and all we get is one more spell for the garbage cause I doubt coh will be used by any priest with a 6secs cd and with a so low base healing, it will be one more of the supplementary spells and frankly we are fed up of supplementary spells and being in raids to fill in the gaps without ever achieving perfection in one thing. Cause it is not we are afraid for our raiding spots, there is no good healer in any class to be afraid of being left outside from a raid, the question is why we always have to struggle about these raid spots and why not pay some attention to this class and balance it after 4 years of meaningless radical changes.
Summarizing, we are the most versatile class in the game only in papers. We could do everything good enough, but not as well as classes made for that can. One of our main disadvantages as a class (apart from cloth) has always been our mana efficiency. Half of our spells are sitting in our bars used rarely ever due to their high mana cost and our low mana efficiency. Have you asked those who test the classes for you what was the last time they used binding heal? POH? The lolwell? and were actually saving the day or found em affordable or needed? I am not gonna fall into the trap of comparing priest with other classes cause the point is not to nerf the rest to make priests feel better, the point is to balance a class that you have forgotten since Classic and just threw them a super uber pro skill in tbc to make em shut up.
I don’t understand why u gave us coh at first place we had a spell called POH which was fairly balanced considering its big casting time and the high mana cost, it would be more efficient to fix that spell to apply in the raid and even nerf its base healing; do whatever to it but bring these spells back to our active casing bars. It would be more decent and balanced to try and fix the old spells than giving us overpowered spells that you are nerfing a whole of a year later imho. You declare we are the most versatile class with a tone of spells to use when in action half of them are wasted bar slots.We do not actually ask much but give to the class the mana efficiency and design in our spells to put them back in game, no priest has asked for a nuclear weapon, just to be efficient in using all our skills that are now sitting in the spellbook and will still be there if not fixed even after the nerf.
So when I logged on to find that I had a CD to my CoH I was on the wall about the subject. I still partially am.
For those who've known me longer than the little time I've been with this guild you know that I was never really a fan of CoH in TBC. In my officer days I was reluctant to bring more than 1-2 holy priests to raids period; one for spirit buff and one with CoH because people would uproar if I didn't. So when I began playing again after WotLK came out and found that priests were degenerated to CoH spammers and used as aoe raid heals I was shocked and discouraged. Nevertheless, I spent my talent points accordingly and picked up the spell that I had disliked for so long. Now, with recent raiding and healing for dungeons I got used to being that aoe/raid heal position. Able to be the quick picker-upper after stuns or when there's raid-wide damage by not only 'spamming' CoH, but using it efficiently (check wws for my healing vs. overheals). I deduced that perhaps it wasn't so bad to have a real purpose again after shaman and pallies seemed to take up the most desirable healing spots in raids during TBC.
Imagine my surprise to log in and find that my viability in raids had been shot. Since beginning raids in WotLK all I've really done has been an aoe healer as priests are no longer mt/ot healers unless specced just right. As I was reading the post above me, there were so many good points brought up. The whole mechanic of priests has been always-changing and soon enough I feel we're only going to be viable if we're shadow specced. IMO blizz made a mistake with the cooldown. I like one idea where it could add a stacking debuff to increase the mana use of the spell, either that or a lower cooldown- perhaps 3s.- would have been a better choice.
Discuss?
Oh yeah, just threw in the raid spot thing for a shocking title. I don't really expect priests to actually lose raid spots. We're still good for some things.. I think. We make pretty angels when we die?.. heh.
Kamlynn- Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-01-07
Re: CoH nerf, fear for future raid spots?! =O Beware the Wall-o-Text!
Hrm, I didn't see the 6 sec cooldown on CoH killing the group healing, to me it just meant having to actually switch to flash heals/renews/gheals if you needed to keep people up between the 6 seconds of CoH.
I tried holy spec for a day or two and disliked it. I'm disc and have been disc for the majority of the lastest xpac. Wanna talk about a cooldown? Penance is 10 seconds, 8 if spec'ed into it.
Either or, I agree that bliz has definitely made the priest a whirlwind of archetypes. I think, though, that the intention is to give priests the option to do direct healing effectively vs. emergency heals/aoe heals vs. dps. Like I said earlier, I don't feel that the nerf to CoH was too terribly bad, at least from what I saw in our 10-man on tuesday with only one CoH priest healing the splash damage in the raid. I just join the countless other healers who felt that it was just too much easy mode and unfair in terms the amount of work we have to do to keep people up vs. what CoH had to do. A lot of the other healers were getting frustrated because a CoH priest's effective healing was usually quite a few percent above everyone else's in a raid... and all they had to do to get that was spam 1 button. Kudos to blizz for not making healing so mindless.
Oh and I can and do MT heal well... I have all the nifty bells and whistles as disc to keep my mana up while healing 1 or 2 targets taking loads of damage (grace, armor buff, bubble on spell crit, PW:S giving me haste, and most healing spells giving back up to 2.5% of my max mana)... So I suggest that if you want to do more direct healing, try Disc., otherwise try to stick with the aoe role and become slightly less efficient with the cooldown and wait and see what happens.
My philosophy is that to be an effective player you have to learn to roll with the punches (or nerfs) and play around the imposed weaknesses in your spec until such time that blizz decides to change it.
I tried holy spec for a day or two and disliked it. I'm disc and have been disc for the majority of the lastest xpac. Wanna talk about a cooldown? Penance is 10 seconds, 8 if spec'ed into it.
Either or, I agree that bliz has definitely made the priest a whirlwind of archetypes. I think, though, that the intention is to give priests the option to do direct healing effectively vs. emergency heals/aoe heals vs. dps. Like I said earlier, I don't feel that the nerf to CoH was too terribly bad, at least from what I saw in our 10-man on tuesday with only one CoH priest healing the splash damage in the raid. I just join the countless other healers who felt that it was just too much easy mode and unfair in terms the amount of work we have to do to keep people up vs. what CoH had to do. A lot of the other healers were getting frustrated because a CoH priest's effective healing was usually quite a few percent above everyone else's in a raid... and all they had to do to get that was spam 1 button. Kudos to blizz for not making healing so mindless.
Oh and I can and do MT heal well... I have all the nifty bells and whistles as disc to keep my mana up while healing 1 or 2 targets taking loads of damage (grace, armor buff, bubble on spell crit, PW:S giving me haste, and most healing spells giving back up to 2.5% of my max mana)... So I suggest that if you want to do more direct healing, try Disc., otherwise try to stick with the aoe role and become slightly less efficient with the cooldown and wait and see what happens.
My philosophy is that to be an effective player you have to learn to roll with the punches (or nerfs) and play around the imposed weaknesses in your spec until such time that blizz decides to change it.
nefarion- Posts : 58
Join date : 2008-10-28
Age : 42
Location : AL
Re: CoH nerf, fear for future raid spots?! =O Beware the Wall-o-Text!
Since the release of WotLK I have yet to play a really disc-heavy healing spec. I've been healing forever and up through BC I was a disc/holy spec.
In no way am I saying that they -shouldn't- have nerfed CoH. I agree it was letting too many people through topping the meters by spamming a single heal and making it look like they were the better healers when that just wasn't true. That's why, as I said before, I was until recently against CoH. I know the priest class and I know how I play and what I can and cannot do. I know I can be a MT/OT healer even as holy, but the fact is- people don't see it that way anymore. If you're holy you're classified as AOE heals and that's that. I hate that when people see a priest complaining or opening a discussion about this nerf, they automatically group that priest into the 'mindless healer' group. :/
As far as the 6s cd not killing group healing because you switch to other heals, that's besides the point. I was talking about group healing in situations where the group takes tons of damage in a short period of time. If you don't have aoe heals in some form, (PoH, CoH, Shaman, Druids, etc.) then people are going to die. Don't get me wrong, I use renew and flash heal more often than CoH but that doesn't mean that an aoe heal isn't going to be better in some situations. The way I see it, and AoE heal is meant for the group healing situations, other heals have their own situations as well.
I'm trying to make sense here at work. I'm not really fully awake, though. =D
In no way am I saying that they -shouldn't- have nerfed CoH. I agree it was letting too many people through topping the meters by spamming a single heal and making it look like they were the better healers when that just wasn't true. That's why, as I said before, I was until recently against CoH. I know the priest class and I know how I play and what I can and cannot do. I know I can be a MT/OT healer even as holy, but the fact is- people don't see it that way anymore. If you're holy you're classified as AOE heals and that's that. I hate that when people see a priest complaining or opening a discussion about this nerf, they automatically group that priest into the 'mindless healer' group. :/
As far as the 6s cd not killing group healing because you switch to other heals, that's besides the point. I was talking about group healing in situations where the group takes tons of damage in a short period of time. If you don't have aoe heals in some form, (PoH, CoH, Shaman, Druids, etc.) then people are going to die. Don't get me wrong, I use renew and flash heal more often than CoH but that doesn't mean that an aoe heal isn't going to be better in some situations. The way I see it, and AoE heal is meant for the group healing situations, other heals have their own situations as well.
I'm trying to make sense here at work. I'm not really fully awake, though. =D
Kamlynn- Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-01-07
points, you have them.
The heavy group dmg is a major complaint that I have about this xpac actually.
The splash dmg in naxx is stupid bad. Other than patchwerk there is no boss where the group isn't taking dmg, either by dot or direct.
I completely admit to lumping all holy healers into AoE and apologize right now, Kam. To me, holy priests have always been CoH, just like shaman used to be all Chain Heals (which also went thru a nerf a while back).
the funny thing is that as a druid, I'm not really an AoE healer. I have 2 AoE heals. Tranq is on a 10 min CD and WG heals for ~1500, is not a smart heal and now also has a 6 sec CD. What a druid is good at is healing a lot of people a little bit. So I can keep a group up forever if they are taking small amounts of splash, but if they're taking a ton, I need a 'real' healer.
But srsly, in the future I will not ask spec, I will ask AoE or single target.
The splash dmg in naxx is stupid bad. Other than patchwerk there is no boss where the group isn't taking dmg, either by dot or direct.
I completely admit to lumping all holy healers into AoE and apologize right now, Kam. To me, holy priests have always been CoH, just like shaman used to be all Chain Heals (which also went thru a nerf a while back).
the funny thing is that as a druid, I'm not really an AoE healer. I have 2 AoE heals. Tranq is on a 10 min CD and WG heals for ~1500, is not a smart heal and now also has a 6 sec CD. What a druid is good at is healing a lot of people a little bit. So I can keep a group up forever if they are taking small amounts of splash, but if they're taking a ton, I need a 'real' healer.
But srsly, in the future I will not ask spec, I will ask AoE or single target.
shadith- Posts : 116
Join date : 2008-10-21
Re: CoH nerf, fear for future raid spots?! =O Beware the Wall-o-Text!
To me, droods are hot healers. Quite literally. It's been my experience that they're most effective rolling their hots, I wouldn't expect aoe heals from them unless it's a dire situation. From druids that I've talked to, they tend to have issues in 5-mans or in heavy healing type situations. It's just a matter of figuring out what works. I suggested to a drood friend in an old guild to just keep rolling her hots on the mt/ot and I saw a significant increase in her heals.. it was just finding that certain niche that worked for her playstyle that helped.
I have never been an aoe healer.. well atleast not until raiding with brawl/blackened. That's just how I've played. I picked up CoH for the sheer fact that I had the point to spend and figured why not see why people are so obsessed about it. I played around with my spec yesterday and so I'm experimenting with different specs. I know a lot of people go with cookie cutter specs, but the way I play I like to make my own because I know what I will or will not use in raids.
I have never been an aoe healer.. well atleast not until raiding with brawl/blackened. That's just how I've played. I picked up CoH for the sheer fact that I had the point to spend and figured why not see why people are so obsessed about it. I played around with my spec yesterday and so I'm experimenting with different specs. I know a lot of people go with cookie cutter specs, but the way I play I like to make my own because I know what I will or will not use in raids.
Kamlynn- Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-01-07
Re: CoH nerf, fear for future raid spots?! =O Beware the Wall-o-Text!
I think the reason for holy being classified for AoE is simply because CoH is much more effective for group healing in it's mechanic than most anything else...
I do agree that holy can solo heal and are usually always just lumped into AoE regardless which may not always be the best strategy. But from my personal perspective, I have a lot to offer for solo healing with grace and divine aegis as disc. I have absolutely nothing to heal a raid aside from renew and flash heal, CoH is great if it's only my group taking damage.
However, with the Guardian spirit talent and all the mana given back on OH plus super powerful gheals and flash heals and surge of light... Holy priests are still highly viable for solo heal roles. It's just in a raid format, when you have several healers that are suited to only healing one or two targets and you have a few that have the ability to effectively heal the raid with mechanics like CoH, it makes the choice seem biased in that regard... When I try to group heal usually someone dies, I run out of mana, and it's just ridiculously time/mana inneficient. I can't speak for all other classes/specs, I'm just noting from my perspective that I can do well with direct heals but tend to fail hard with aoe, so I would always stick a CoH priest on aoe over myself.
So I guess it is to say that some of the other classes have been nerfed in aoe heals as well... and I don't know... I'm just looking at it from a raiding standpoint. I agree with shad, there is way too much splash damage in the xpac and so that forces us into putting those who can handle it better on that than the rest of us.
I do agree that holy can solo heal and are usually always just lumped into AoE regardless which may not always be the best strategy. But from my personal perspective, I have a lot to offer for solo healing with grace and divine aegis as disc. I have absolutely nothing to heal a raid aside from renew and flash heal, CoH is great if it's only my group taking damage.
However, with the Guardian spirit talent and all the mana given back on OH plus super powerful gheals and flash heals and surge of light... Holy priests are still highly viable for solo heal roles. It's just in a raid format, when you have several healers that are suited to only healing one or two targets and you have a few that have the ability to effectively heal the raid with mechanics like CoH, it makes the choice seem biased in that regard... When I try to group heal usually someone dies, I run out of mana, and it's just ridiculously time/mana inneficient. I can't speak for all other classes/specs, I'm just noting from my perspective that I can do well with direct heals but tend to fail hard with aoe, so I would always stick a CoH priest on aoe over myself.
So I guess it is to say that some of the other classes have been nerfed in aoe heals as well... and I don't know... I'm just looking at it from a raiding standpoint. I agree with shad, there is way too much splash damage in the xpac and so that forces us into putting those who can handle it better on that than the rest of us.
nefarion- Posts : 58
Join date : 2008-10-28
Age : 42
Location : AL
.-. well...
I agree with everyone! But after a while one gets used to it.
Maybe it's cuz prior to actually raiding with Zutara I never really used CoH. It was something I usually looked over in favor of greater heals, flash heals and whatnot. Spamming it was nice tho >_> Ah well.
Maybe it's cuz prior to actually raiding with Zutara I never really used CoH. It was something I usually looked over in favor of greater heals, flash heals and whatnot. Spamming it was nice tho >_> Ah well.
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